Nick Cohen and commentator Nick Tyrone discuss the rise of the radicalised right in the UK and ask why the Conservatives won't fight against the extremists in their midst and party. Instead, some Tories are have buckled to the siren voices of intolerance and extremism. They are dragging their party further to the extremes by trying to outflank Nigel Farage & Reform on the right.

Right wing extremism becomes ever more extreme

Nick Tyrone says, "We've come so far that Farage is starting to look relatively moderate compared to some of the stuff that's even happening within the conservative party now. That's how scary things have become."

Nick adds, "I have my doubts that however much money you threw at it, that a sort of a party that was sort of Rupert Lowe shaped like, was sort of that right wing could actually succeed to a huge degree in Britain. ... you could do it in a boiling frog sort of a way. I think you could get a, a government elected that on a much more moderate platform that, so that kept turning up the dial and got more and more right wing and, and if that government was producing, you know, economic growth and was eliminating some of the bigger problems they got the NHS working, they would probably be given leeway to do some fairly terrible right wing stuff."

Conservatives wont defend conservatism - inevitability of Jenrick leadership

Nick says, "Robert Jenrick is going to be the conservative leader unless Jenrick jumps to reform, which I don't think he will, but I can't rule that out. Yeah, it's gonna be Jenrick. And again, it's that sort of thing. Well, what do the moderates do? And the answer seems to be not very much. And just sort of go along and hope somewhere along the line everything works out. I think Jenrick could take them further to the right than reform. and what happens when that happens? I don't know. I mean, I can say, well, I don't think that'll work."

Possible malevolent force could take over the UK

Nick Tyrone says, "I can't really emphasise enough every time I come on how completely all over the place the Tories are and what a mess they are. So in the end it's totally possible that some real malevolent force could take hold in British politics."

Nick Tyrone is an author, activist, policy advisor and commentator and keen observer of the Tory party whose Substack column as Neoliberal Centrist Dad - nick.tyrone.substack.com - is a must read for those of us desperate for the return of sanity to our national political discourse.

Nick Cohen's @NickCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

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Nick Cohen and historian James Hawes discuss wide range of political topics, focusing primarily on British politics, Brexit, and the rise of right-wing populism. Discussions included the historical context and current state of the Conservative Party, the challenges faced by Labour and the SNP, and the potential long-term implications of demographic changes on political landscapes. James Hawes argues that only liberal populists can counter the threat posed by Nigel Farage and Reform.

Brexit's Long-Term Consequences and Failures

James and Nick discusses the long-term implications and failures of Brexit, highlighting how Farage and other Brexit advocates had been promoting the idea for decades. Both criticise the lack of accountability and the continued influence of Brexit supporters despite the project's evident failures. James expressed optimism for a pro-remain populist leader to challenge Brexit advocates directly, rather than relying on complex economic arguments. He also shared a conversation with a top UK insider predicting the UK's collapse by 2029 due to Keir Starmer's inability to address the mess left by the Tories & Brexit

The Tory Party pickle

James & Nick discuss the historical and current dire state of the Conservative Party, highlighting its long history of populism and sectarianism. They argue that the party's true nature is being revealed through its alignment with Farage and its anti-migrant stance, which James compares to 19th-century Tory behaviour.

Farage's Rise and threat to the UK

The discussion focuses on British politics, particularly Farage's rise and the potential for a shift towards far-right governance. James argues that Farage success in England will re-energise the SNP & inevitably speed up the UK's break-up. Both express concern about the working-class appeal of Farage's populism and discuss the perception of left-wing politicians as communists by some conservatives.

Demographic Shifts and Political Implications

The discussion focused on demographic challenges and political implications, with Nick and James exploring how an aging population and ironically more financially secure voters are more likely to vote for Farage and his brand of nut-job populist extremism, while younger generations face difficulties accessing housing and other opportunities. James argues that a more liberal -leftist brand of populism - with policies such as I.D. cards and German-like tests for trades people - might help counter the poison and certain chaos of Farageism.

Read all about it!

James Hawes @jameshawes2 is a historian and author of a novel and books such as including The Shortest History of Germany and The Shortest History on England

Nick Cohen's @NichCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nick Cohen talks to Lowdown regular and Guardian columnist Rafael Behr about Labour's struggle with the new international Trump disorder, its communications crisis, perceived serial bungling by Sir Keir Starmer and the party's perceived drift.

Starmer struggling with Trump's betrayal of the West

In anticipation of a possible US strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, Rafael & Nick discuss the growing decay of the so-called US-UK "special relationship". Rafael does not believe that Sir Keir Starmer grasps "the sheer enormity of what is happening." He adds "I think he's ultimately a very small "c" conservative person who thinks you can just fix things by sort of just getting through, making do mending sort of DIY around the status quo and hoping that that process will just see you through."

Trump's Putin fanboys are nothing new

Rafael reminds Nick that the American First tradition was "very sympathetic of Hitler or, wanted to keep out of the second World War." He adds, They developed conspiracy theories that Roosevelt was really responsible for Pearl Harbour and all that kind of underworld, which never went away in America, is, is now back, is now back with Trump." Like America First, Trump's MAGA are in a world of where Putin apologists & conspiracy crackpots are now right at the heart of power in Washington.

Clueless Kemi & her hapless party are all at sea

Rafael has completely lost her bearings of where votable right ring thinking is current/y, and even Trump was "...not so stupid as to do the sort of Kemi Badenoch trying to out Reform Reform by being in the sort of mad slightly conspiracy theory, tinge, racist, digital silos that reform paddle around in."

Keir Starmer is an analog prime minister in a digital age

Rafael is convinced that Starmer doesn't have a fully worked out concept of the British economy. Labour has major communications problems and Raf is picking up murmurings among Party figures of possibly replacing him. "he would've been a great Prime minister in 1968 or 1949, " says Rafael, adding, "he's a fantastically well qualified analog prime minister!"

Rafael's recent book Politics: A Survivor's Guide: How to stay engaged without getting enraged is published by W.F.Howes Ltd and available at Amazon and in all good bookshops.

Support the show You can also read his wonderful columns in the Guardian. His X handle is @rafaelbehr

Nick Cohen's @NichCohen4 latest Substack column Writing from London on politics and culture from the UK and beyond.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.