211: Angela Cretu is the former Global CEO of Avon. She is now an active Board Member, Beauty Industry Advisor, and Angel Investor. Angela took over as CEO just before the pandemic but had worked for Avon for 25 years starting her career in Romania. Growing up in a communist country meant that life was quite predictable, equality was standardised and the right to self expression was non existent. This set of experiences helped shape the leader that Angela was to become. Avon as a company was founded in 1886 and the business model from the very beginning was for women to share the products within their own micro communities (direct selling) which in turn would share wealth creation amongst many. The products and the model for selling were both breakthrough at the time and all focused on empowering women. It grew it's relevance over the years especially with it's in-house R&D capabilities however in the 2000's it started to lag behind its competitors by not keeping the pace with the market to follow and understand the behaviours and purchasing insights of women around the world. Avon's strong legacy was actually a burden, hampering its ability to be agile in a fast changing world. At one point Avon had approximately 6.5 million representatives with over 20,000 employees and revenues in the multiple billions. It was the ultimate social selling machine. This all changed during the pandemic and cost cutting was at the heart of the race to survive. Avon changed three CEO's over 12 years as the strategic dilemma was to decide if Avon was a brand or a channel and a number of mistakes were made as different executives tried to find the answer. Angela was always of the view that their millions of women sellers were brand equity creators and they needed to be empowered and leveraged across the world. When Angela took over, Avon was tipping on the edge of its own demise, until Natura decided to acquire Avon. Angela did not even apply for the role of CEO in 2019 and she was surprised to be summoned to Sao Paulo, the HQ of Natura and invited to apply, to which she initially said no. Natura knew that they needed someone with significant insight and experience of the business to drive the transformation that was necessary in order to survive and thrive. Once Angela knew she would have a real mandate for change from the board, she agreed to take the role. What was required was an end to end change, modernisation and overhaul of Avon. The essence of Avon was still the high touch and personal service that came from the millions of Avon sellers across the world and the strong purpose and movement that had been built since 1886. Aspirational beauty at irresistible value was the answer. During Angela's tenure as CEO, one of the main focus areas was her ability to change the history of Avon by tackling the biggest taboo, which was the direct selling methodology. She changed the question from what are we to why are we? She truly believed the world is a better place with Avon in it. As the debate raged as to whether Avon was a brand or a channel she decided that Avon was both, especially in the age of an omnichannel world. Avon today is located in 2,000 stores and has leveraged a number of strategic partnerships and digital nomad sellers utilising the power of social media. Angela stripped out the complexity of the business and dismantled the hard wiring beliefs before she instilled new values. Looking back Angela is able to reflect on the hard work that was necessary to transform Avon but during the events themselves she agrees that crisis was her daily dish on the leadership menu. Angela has 5 key reflections as a CEO: 1. A new type of leadership is required in todays world to become a force for good. 2. Moving from peer to leader - managing the weight of expectation 3. Being a multiplier not a pleaser - creating connections to allow others to act with purpose and autonomy. She also talks about the importance of being able to tell others who she is as a leader. 4. Unity amongst division - the devil of choosing a direction and managing the paradox without ignoring the nuances of both sides. 5. Redefining imposter syndrome - Angela feels the word imposter is a negative word and this more about leveraging your self doubt to learn. www.linkedin.com/in/angela-cretu/

Bob Skinstad represented South Africa Rugby at all levels. Having captained the under 21 Springbok side in 1996 and 1997, he ascended to the adult team as a replacement on 29 November 1997 against England. He would go on to play 42 tests for the Springboks, scoring 11 tries – and captained the national side to its second Rugby Union World Cup in 2007, before retiring. Bob is now a Partner at the challenger consultancy firm Elixirr.

Very recently Bob and Andrew Mehrtens (former All Black) completed the takeover of French second division club Beziers, heading up a consortium which also features ex-Formula 1 boss Eddie Jordan.

Bob and I have a very candid chat about what is was like growing up in Zimbabwe as a white privileged child in an affluent family. During his teenage years Bob started to become fully aware of the challenges within South Africa during Apartheid. In fact Bob went on to meet Nelson Mandela in his role as national captain of The Sprinboks. Bob shares some great memories of chatting to Nelson Mandela and his incredible leadership and approach to inclusivity even after decades of incarceration.

Bob reflects on his early life in South Africa and even with his obvious sporting talent he accepts that he took things for granted and didn't have a mentality for all out winning.

Today, as a leader in business, Bob describes himself and learner as opposed to leader. The older he gets the more he realises what he doesn't know.

When Bob started to play rugby it wasn't a profession for a full time role, it was all amateur. That changed for South Africa during the 1995 World Cup as Rugby started to mean more to the nation. Bob lived the transformational change within South Africa and became the first professionally contracted rugby player in the country. He made his men's debut in 1997 against England.

Bob recalls having two district careers in rugby, one was the young devil may care maverick player that catapulted him into the national team and one was the captain and leader of a nation where he had to learn the history and scarred memories of many of his players who did not have the upbringing that he experienced.

Belonging is a principle need for humanity and Bob explains how this is a powerful contributor to a high performing team, especially within a sporting context. Leading and managing chaos is inevitable on the international rugby field and Bob explains the importance of strategy, planning, speed of decision making and practice to help mitigate the chaos.

One of Bob's standout lessons is that there are different types of people 'givers need to learn when to stop because takers never do' and so Bob realised how important it was to find his tribe with belonging purpose and passion.

www.elixirr.com/en-gb/person/bobskinstad

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This episode was filmed in front of a live studio audience at Vorboss in central London. Kevin O'Leary spent 30 years as a police officer with the Metropolitan Police retiring as a Chief Superintendent. Kevin was also, now famously, episode No.1 of The Leadership Enigma which started during the pandemic.

This episode is a fascinating insight into the world of crime and punishment including undercover policing, hostage negotiation, stolen vehicles, riots, serial killers and more.

Kevin decided to become a police officer after he was robbed at knife point at 14 years old and the police solved the crime and actually recovered his bicycle.

As a very young probationary police officer Kevin found himself policing the miner's strike in the 1980's during the time Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister and also the Broadwater Farm riots which involved the murder of PC Keith Blakelock, all providing Kevin with a baptism of fire into the world of policing.

Kevin's time with the Stolen Vehicle Squad was his initiation in the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) and learning how to carry a case load of allocated reactive investigations.

In 1999 Kevin became involved in the Admiral Duncan Pub bombing. He was around the corner on an unrelated surveillance operation when the bomb was detonated. At the scene, Kevin was faced with chaos and destruction. As one of the first on scene his ability to make quick decisions and prioritise were tested to the max.

As a police officer and leader, picking up on 'weak signals' is a must in a world of constant change. Kevin tells the story of dealing with a High Risk missing person which turned into uncovering the actions of an international serial killer, John Sweeney, who is currently serving life in prison and will be the focus of a recent television documentary.

Kevin as a senior officer held the role of Head of Undercover Policing for the Metropolitan Police and explains the iconic investigation he was involved in that was headlined in the newspapers as 'The Hip Hop Cop Shop.' Kevin had to make a series of difficult and at times unpopular decisions for the ranks and file officers in order to help protect them from the rigours and stresses of undercover operations.

One of Kevin's final roles in his career was as Bronze Commander during the London 2012 Olympics with a funny story of the cycle protest group 'Critical Mass' that had been infiltrated and decided to see if they could intercept the Queen!

Kevin is also the 'referee' for the award winning TV show 'Hunted' which is on our screens each year.

www.kevinoleary123.com

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Tom Monahan took on the role of CEO of Heidrick & Struggles in 2024. He came to Heidrick & Struggles with a decades-long career of building and leading innovative technology, data, and services companies and as a long-time Heidrick & Struggles client.

Most recently, Tom was president and CEO of DeVry University, where he led the university to digital innovation, sustained growth, outstanding student success metrics, and financial strength as a newly independent institution.

Tom is passionate about people and the role that leadership has to create a world better led. Tom explains to me that the right people, in the right role leading in the right way is the single most important driver for high performing organisations. Tom's decision to take up the CEO role of Heidrick & Struggles was based on the ability of H&S to really make a difference for organisations in finding the right leaders and to co-create great performance on an individual and collective basis. Tom describes leaders are Magpies, building their nests out of anything they can find within themselves and in their surroundings based on insatiable curiosity and a beginners mindset.

I ask Tom about his parents and family background as I search for clues into his focus and success. His answer will surprise you.

Tom tells me that in his role as CEO he is the steward of the business and the people are the only thing that won't be worth less from the day they begin working in the organisation. Each and every day a person grows, learns and experiences in a way that builds the sum of the parts. It is the human capital that is the most precious resource of any business.

One of Tom's primary strengths is his ability to frame a problem or issue in order to create focus as opposed to always having an answer. 'Fast Starts matter' Tom explains, so getting quick insight is paramount for any leader and organisation in gathering the collective intelligence to focus on the issue or problem and resolve it.

Leading experts has always been a leadership challenge and Tom tells me that he is expert in the way we used to do things and not how we should do things so he has to get out of the way of his people and allow them to operate in a way that they know is best.

As CEO Tom is focused on creating an environment where the best people come to do their best work. Tom also understands that any new CEO must be 'courageously humble' as he tries to understand the business that he is taking over, the people that he leads and the culture that he initially inherits. The most dangerous thing a CEO can do, is be a focus group of one.

Tom is an introvert by nature so the very social and public facing element of the role is a constant challenge for him and he fondly remembers the advice from an inebriated aunt that if something is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

www,hedrick.com

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Stevie Ward is the former captain of the Leeds Rhinos Super League Rugby team, winner of the Super League and Challenge Cup and he was also one of the youngest captains aged only 26.

Stevie had 10 operations during his playing career and had to retire early due to a brain injury. This is a powerful episode of humility, vulnerability and resilience.

Stevie was lucky enough to play for Leeds during the 'Golden Generation' playing with a number of England Internationals including the late Rob Burrows. He made his debut at 18 years old sharing his formative years doing battle on the professional rugby field.

I explore Stevie's background to try and understand what allowed him to find the the strength to enter professional rugby at such a young age with maximum intensity and dedication to being the best he could be.

Stevie was named captain at just 26 years old and this official leadership role meant he felt the enormous pressure to perform and succeed which initially led to a feel of overwhelm and essentially sub optimal performance. Stevie remembers the toughest times when the team lost their unique identify and didn't know who they were which translated into poor performances on the pitch. The team needed to overcome fear and reflect on how they could leverage their unique differences and personalities to create something special, authentic and compelling as a team. How could they create their own high performing culture? There is so much uncertainty in a Rugby League team amongst a group of warriors who needed to create a high level of psychological safety for all the players to all feel able to bring their best without fear of failure and or criticism.

A brain injury (multiple concussions) forced Stevie to step away from professional rugby whilst he was in his prime. To this day he still feels the effects of the injuries he suffered on the pitch and he has had to completely reassess who he is and what he is passionate about.

Stevie filmed a Sky Sports documentary 6-8 months after stepping away from the game and he initially hoped that he would actually be able to return to the game but even attending the stadium as a spectator for the documentary, Stevie found was a sensory overload and he had to leave at half time.

Stevie also emotionally remembers his friendship and playing time with Rob Burrows who fought very publicly against motor neurone disease but unfortunately passed away in June 2024.

Stevie hosts 'Mantality' and works with individuals and organisations focused on the importance of mental health, psychological safety, courage, humility and masculine vulnerability, all potentially a paradox with the brutal and competitive world of professional rugby.

Don't miss this episode.

www.stevieward.co.uk

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Loree Draude (call sign 'Rowdy') was one of the first female combat pilots in the US Navy with over 300 aircraft carrier landings and two deployments to the Persian Gulf.

Loree who is based in Boston is currently an author, executive coach and keynote speaker with a passion for focusing on the human being and not just the human doing.

Leadership and service are part of Loree's personal values and she leverages her military experiences to help teams across the world.

Loree grew up in a Marine Corps family and after college she went on a field trip that changed her life after visiting a number of naval stations and seeing a variety of aviation options. At that time women were not allowed to fly most aircraft, they were either trainers or crew. She went for her first flight with a friend and suddenly she knew the way forward, especially when the first Top Gun movie came out!

As part of her flight training she was in awe of all the people who made military flying possible and then about one and half years after she earned her wings, the ban on women flying combat aircraft was lifted.

in 1991 military officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted or engaged in improper and indecent behaviour with up to 83 women and 7 men at the Las vegas Hilton at the 35th annual Tailhook Association which became known as the Tailhook Scandal of 91. This was a major catalyst for the evolution of change and Loree had her opportunity. She became part of the first wave of female combat pilots for the US Navy and was flying the F18 Hornet and S3B Viking anti submarine warfare jet.

Loree vividly remembers her first landing on an aircraft carrier and the feelings of terror and thrill combining. Once she deployed to her fleet squadron she then flew night time carrier landings which was a very different challenge.

As a combat pilot, I ask Loree about her role and mindset required to potentially have to take the life of another. Loree explains that this is a very real part of her role, fortunate to never have to, but the expectation was constant and heavy. She also recognises the distance between her and the enemy as compared to the infantry, was also a factor in how she processed her role. As she tested her own limits she speaks of the need and requirement for high levels of trust with her leaders to determine life and death decisions.

Finally Loree chats about her one woman show that was delivered just off Broadway which was part of her inner journey that also became part of the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Check out: www.loreedraude.com

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This episode features Sir Max Hill KC who was the former Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) for the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and Tom Sprange KC who is the Managing Partner of the London office of King & Spalding, the international law firm. Both are highly experienced trial lawyers who have made the transition from individual contributors to leaders and experts in their respective fields. The path into the legal profession was not easy for either Max or Tom yet both have risen to highest levels with humility and gratitude.

King & Spalding provided both of them a vibrant and inclusive working environment with the ability to harness deep expertise and capability across the world in helping their clients deal with the trickiest of legal issues.

King & Spalding has a rich history dating back to 1885 so Tom as a senior leader is a gatekeeper for that legacy with the role to continue building a sustainable professional services supplier for the next generation of lawyers. Tom explains the need for professional excellence, business acumen in a competitive market whist also ensuring that the generation behind them is well equipped to be better than the existing leadership.

Organisations have to remain relevant with a strong purpose in order to be attractive to the talent market. Tom explains this is always a challenge but he ensures the firm offers high quality work, good remuneration combined with a working environment that is supportive, inclusive, professionally robust and purpose driven.

Max has been with the firm for only 4 months after completing his 5 year term as DPP and Tom explains the way the leadership has deliberately crafted the culture of the firm to be inquisitive, best in class and competitive with and effective global listening system to ensure they are capable of advising clients in the most serious and high profile legal matters.

The law is more of a people business than outsiders might think with a higher level of innovation required than in previous years especially in a digitally changing landscape.

Max outlines his strong belief as a leader to always see value in others and realise how any individual will always be bolstered by the talents and hard work of others.

Enjoy this great panel discussion with The King's Counsel

www.kslaw.com

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