LEAD HOST: Rev. Michael-Ray Mathews

GUESTS: Reverends Rudy & Juanita Rasmus

Seeing Big Ma on the Mothers’ pew of the church, crying her heart out in grief, gratitude and joy, left an indelible mark on me…as a child I knew something powerful and transformative was happening in the front of the church, on “the Mothers Bench.” -MRM 

Conflating the Mother’s & Mourner’s bench as a child, Rev. Mathews has since envisioned ideas of grief, conquering fear, healing, joy and liberation that enflesh theology and hold much-needed space for trauma healing and transformation—not just in body, or mind or the abstracted spirit or soul— but the whole Black Body. The FOUR are joined by Rudy and Juanita Rasmus for a deeply personal and compelling conversation. They are pastors, authors and humanitarians with a passion for healing. Including their own.

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Once lost himself, (in his words, he owned “borderline bordello”), today Pastor Rudy co-leads St. John’s Downtown Houston with his wife, Juanita, of 32 years. 

From nine members in 1992, the church has grown to the thousands where people of every social and economic background share the pew. Pastor Rudy attributes success to tearing down the walls of classism, sexism, and racism, and building compassionate bridges of unconditional love, universal recovery, and unprecedented hope. 

With generous support from government agencies and Beyoncé, Tina and Solange Knowles, St. John’s offers permanent housing to formerly unhoused women and men; employment services, youth empowerment activities; and is one of few faith communities in the U.S. providing HIV/AIDS testing to churchgoers on Sundays. They also lead domestic and global anti-hunger initiatives in conjunction with Beyoncé’s concert tours and distribute over nine tons of fresh produce weekly to hungry families in Houston.

LEAD HOST: Rev. Michael-Ray Mathews
GUEST: Rev. angel Kyodo williams, Roshi

SHOUTIN’ IN THE FIRE & FINDING FIERCE LOVE

LEAD HOST: Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis

GUEST: Dante Stewart

Best-selling author and new voice, Dante Stewart, stormed the scene with his personal story. In 2016, he was a rising leader at his predominantly white evangelical church. But then came Donald Trump and Dante quickly found himself isolated amid a people unraveled. He needed to leave his god box and Dr. Lewis challenges us to do the same.

Shoutin’ In The Fire: An American Epistle, Dante’s coming of age in a time of terror, calls us to reclaim and reimagine spiritual virtues like rage, resilience, and remembrance. Similarly, Dr. Lewis, in her new memoir, Fierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-Breaking Kindness That Can Heal the World, says we need to bravely disengage from the old image of God and leave the confined god box of the Black space. Both agree: We need faith that speaks truth to pain and trauma, and pursues a truer love than the kind we’re taught. 

Featured on CNN, The Washington Post, Christianity Today, Sojourners and more, Dante joins The FOUR to explore how these virtues might function against an unjust, unloving world.